can you gain muscle while cutting reddit

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"impossible" is a strong word. In my experience though, a lot of formerly overweight and inactive people feel great once lean and fit and don't feel the need to push further down that road. In fact, the specific requirements for gaining muscle are also the reason that you tend to gain fat at the same time. Where's the funding coming from? The SARMs results you can expect to get will vary depending on your workout routine, nutrition, diet, genetics, and much more. So you can still get high reps while not having (relatively) large muscles? Should we still lift heavy while cutting? I think you'd benefit from the CW on memes. But cutting-bulking is an advanced topic that didn't seem worth worrying about for someone starting to get fit. [–]WonTwoThree 41 points42 points43 points 3 years ago (0 children), [–][deleted] 57 points58 points59 points 3 years ago (2 children), [–]voneger 22 points23 points24 points 3 years ago (0 children), [–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children). Just trying to gain overall strength and lose that belly pudge . After about a year, you definitely need a moderate caloric surplus to gain muscle efficiently. OP is untrained. This works up until the point that their workout intensity becomes too great for them to continue progress on a maintenance intake. It's a slow, hard but very worthwhile process ;), [–]K2TY 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children), "being a bit hungry is normal and won't kill you", [–]yaoz889 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children). Also, I workout in the morning before breakfast. I appreciate the app and it at least has something solid to start with. That's something you can't quite do on your own, unfortunately as it usually requires measuring tape, calipers, and a good bit of math (or there's a water displacement technique that some places use). To build muscle, you must store energy. I can tell you from firsthand experience that it IS possible to gain muscle while losing bodyfat. The argument goes as follows. Yes, it is possible to get stronger while cutting, at least initially. I'll discuss this in detail next chapter. 3. Strength gain on a cut depends on many factors such as training experience, age, and workout plan. Synthesizing new muscle tissue is especially costly, at least when compared to synthesizing new fat. At 1800 calories a day, and a high protein intake in wondering if in morning that I'll have lost weight or bulked up. Strength gains will come with proper and regular training, the RR is good, stick to it and it will take you far. It's not needed, but it's the "faster way". For you, being below 133 is almost certainly too light, and below 150 probably is. Strength is related to muscle neuron connections. If you want to back pedal, back pedal. But my workouts tend to me much more strength based and less cariod. Many beginner and intermediate lifters may be able to put on some strength while losing fat. Back to the subject at hand - can confirm, losing weight and gaining a bit of muscle is possible at the same time, even as an old-ish fart :), [–]pepitorious 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (1 child), Yes, yes you can. [–]voneger 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children). Body Fat Is The Solution. It is physically impossible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. The old ways of bodybuilding encouraged a low fat, high carbohydrate diet for optimal muscle gain, which is the complete opposite of the keto diet. [–]Gaywallet 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (2 children). I'm also able to do more than when I started. Someone who is overweight and out of shape can recompose successfully for a long time, and when fit, eventually, start hunting for extra gains. Lean bulking is possible, but it depends on your diet, not you workout. In terms of building muscle you need a structured strength training program as well as a good diet. Im on week 3 of 4 day a week workouts. you didn't put an caveats on your position. For now, it seems like FFM can be increased in CR in some populations with rigid exercise programs and controlled diets. Keep on. [–]lngsb 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children), check out dxa scans if you're interested in an accurate body fat percentage, [–]Kwantuum 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (1 child). https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedFitness/comments/3uw3v9/research_review_3_is_it_possible_to_increase/, [–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (1 child), While there are exceptions for certain individuals beginning in an obese or morbidly obese state with little to no previous physical fitness experience, i.e. Getting a lean physique is the goal of every fitness lover; this is where cutting takes place. Almost everyone agrees that newbies can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, so you have to ask yourself, "Why only newbies?" Muscle sparing fasting, for one, can actually be done without any solid food and can give you that “pure” feeling of fasting (while still helping you avoid that unnecessary destruction of your vital body mass). This is why bro-science is so fascinated with bulk/cut cycles to help sculpt the body. Even well intentioned and knowledgeable people can't help you gain insight about physiology the way a trained professional can. Therefore, you must be in energy surplus to gain muscle and in a deficit to lose fat. Right so an assumption with lots of caveats. It gets better. I've heard that you can't gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, but this seems possible with bodyweight training. At the same time. The neuron connection is what contracts the muscles. Synthesizing new tissue (whether muscle or fat) requires energy and that energy can't just magically appear. [–]StabbyMcHatchet -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children). I like all kinds of food. [–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago* (5 children). Muscle definition is a function of two things — muscle size and a low body fat. In most cases you'll lose some muscle … [–]FuckThatIKeepsItRealEquilibre/Handbalancing 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children). Here's what they don't understand. use the following search parameters to narrow your results: Read the Frequently Asked Questions page! In terms of diet, you would shoot for a 1,5-2,5g/kg/day of protein to support muscle building. It's not needed, but it's the "faster way". The literature supports a small deficit or excess (within 500kcal) for untrained to intermediate individuals and a small excess (<500 kcal excess) for well trained (~>3 years) individuals. [–]voneger 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child). We claim to know a lot with our precious science but ultimately not everything is so black and white. Caloric intakes may vary. /u/creepazoid321 this is the best answer to your question. I'd probably need to eat more calories to bulk, but I just want to slim down and lose 40lbs while stealing getting muscle. And that goes for both training and nutrition. We do not frown on weights or barbells as another tool for training. Yes, if you’re following the correct nutrition plan, it’s possible to not just maintain muscle but also actually gain muscle while dieting for a show. There is another bodybuilding myth that you cannot gain muscle and cut at the same time. Hey, sorry for the delayed response. True indeed. Cheers, [–]FitnessNerd117Calisthenics 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago* (0 children). It takes awhile to convince the body to increase muscle mass. I lost 5kgs and it made a HUGE difference in my bodyweight strength training! The Concise Review of The Naked Warrior by Pavel Tsatsouline. The technical answer about health is to talk to a doctor (very low body fat percentage is hard to sustain and not the healthiest option, things depend on your particular physiology). strength gains are not synonymous with muscle gains. People know very little about how things actually work. Same goes with a healthy diet, hard at first, cutting sugar, cutting processed stuff, but after a while, you realize you don't miss it and even find it disgusting. However, it did take over 1 year of eating at 1500 calories and constant training to get here. I have been at this for a few months, and I have continually gained or maintained on every lift while losing about 23 pounds. 2. thanks. ", http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html/, http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/. All at the ripe old age of 42. Your body has an easier time of using carbs and fats for that. When you are in a deficit, your body loses energy. I would just eyeball it. Aside of anecdotal evidence (mine included) it has been observed and documented. I myself wanted to add a bit of muscle whilst getting better at bodyweight training, and I would definitely recommend you to get in touch with a good coach. The tips outlined above will get you started losing fat while building muscle, but if you’re looking to go a bit further… 1) If you want step-by-step guidance on how to lose weight, eat better, and get stronger, check out our killer 1-on-1 coaching program : In order to build muscle, you need to consume excess calories. Just, it is more difficult once you're passed the newbie gains. Anything above that is considered obese. Your numbers are off for a male by a fair bit, 179 is the cut off for normal weight at 5'11, everything over that is overweight. But, it becomes more and more difficult as you keep on training consistently. There’s a difference between the two. 2. strength gain doesn't necessarily mean muscle gains, I've heard that you can't gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, [–]Lucid_Crow 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children), [–]DarkGamer 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children). I accidentally tripped over /r/ketogains one day and got interested in what it was. Source: countless books, scientific articles, posts, read, lots of debunking, about 40kg lost and 10kg+ of muscle gained over 5 years. It gets easier. [–]redditready1986 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children), [–][deleted] 119 points120 points121 points 3 years ago (9 children). So yes, you can build muscle at a small level while losing weight. However if your somewhat new to the game from your genetic natural limits and overfat, you can cut, yet build muscle at the same time, although not to the amount that one could add while consuming a greater amount of clean food. I typically forgo all eating on Tuesday and Thursday and lift with a reverse pyramid scheme on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. To lose fat, you must burn energy. Seven of the women remained sedentary during this period, while the other seven followed a weight training routine. GTFO with that bullshit. We'll your second to last paragraph. Stay lean and gain muscle. I also know that part of the reason I'm moving up to more difficult exercises is because I'm lifting a body that is lighter. https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm, [–]Brion777 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children). Then I see others who say that yes, you can build muscle tissue so long as you don't cut too much (below 1200 calories I believe) and/or have a high enough BF%. [–]toonnolten 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (7 children). If you don't read this you're missing out. Bodyweight training isn't magically enabling this. I'm 5'4 btw. Nice edit. Started reading about it and the diet itself just sounded right up my alley. Lifting heavy while cutting can help you to maintain (and possibly grow some) muscle mass, but it is fat loss that leads increases muscle definition. Still a bit lardier than I'd like but my mood has improved immensely and I'm far less irritable, so get your T levels checked if you haven't yet. As long as you are still eating all of your macros, protein will keep repairing/building your muscles. Yet, I'm guessing you're ready to do some mental gymnastics to continue to justify it. Speaking from recent experience here. I also changed my diet to cut out bread and sugar and eat a load more meat and vegetables, so maybe it was that. All results from trained groups focused on strength gain vs mass. You will gain it slower, though, than you would if you were following the same training while eating at balance. I thought about just focusing on cardio only but that is much less appealing to me. Every meal should include some, learn to cook, even basic stuff, it helps you know what goes in and teaches you the value of food, sugar, refined carbs, only in modest quantities (very calorie dense, high glycemic index), eat lean meat and fish in reasonable quantity. My waist size is where it was when I entered college 20 yrs ago and tighter shirts don't fit anymore in the arms and shoulders. We try to moderate our rate of weight loss and eat protein to minimize muscle loss, but you are losing, not gaining, muscle in a caloric deficit. But I thought about this - can you get stronger while cutting? [–]voneger 18 points19 points20 points 3 years ago (5 children). okay, even under optimal conditions, a well-trained person would likely have to be on a very minor cut and time their deficits per day and specific optimisation stuff like that to gain even the tiniest bit while on a cut... but i would imagine it's not impossible. My diet always sucked. Google and youtube are loaded with ketogenic diet (keto) sites and information. So, really, for body fat percentage, you have a good range of 15-25% for men and 21-30% for women to play with. Do I need to because they'll say he's on drugs? Just keep working through the routine and it will all balance itself out. [–]Brion777 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children). I see so many newcomers and experienced bodybuilders who do efficiently lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously. Doing just this, healthy diet, caloric deficit and workout discipline. Cool, thanks for the response! [–]pja 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (5 children). The logic is, since you can't do both of the above at the same time, you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time. Just started last week with calorie cut and bwt. This is why people get so excited to bulk. Also losing boyweight will make bodyweight skills much easier to learn :-). Wouldn't surprise me if my lazy-ass lifestyle depressed my testosterone levels and made me more susceptible to storing fat round the belly. If you want more info you can have a look at his website: https://www.nielstraining.dk/. Did you check and read the sources or just the headline? Yes, you do gain muscle faster or lose fat faster, but you also do the opposite of what you want (lose muscle or gain fat) when you go to extremes. My point was to spare OP these advanced considerations given that he is beginning. (self.bodyweightfitness). Nothing bad, wrong or dumb about this, carry on. And if you read my further replies in this thread you will see that I said just that. Neither lends itself to an optimal environment for growth. Also, I want to emphasize that muscle tissue growth not = strength gain which has a slew of factors that control it like glycogen stores, creatine-phosphate levels, neuromuscular conditioning, mindset, time of day, etc. Absolutely not! And down the line. [–]CrystalElyse -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (4 children). It's true that newer people to … Goodluck with your progress! As long as the fat burnt compensates the caloric deficit, and provided that you what you eat is otherwise healthy, you can still gain muscle mass. So you have a lot of wiggle room to find out what works best for you. That's not how calories work, that's not how your body works. Fat loss methods don't support muscle growth. Curious. [–]StuWardMilitary 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children). The result? Exactly! As you lose weight, your essentially taking weight off the bar, so yeah you'll be able to do more without more muscle, [–]kjmac 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children), two things: I was 'skinny fat' (I hate this expression, but hey, you know what I mean: only fat round the belly, noodles for arms) and started working out and gained muscle and lost fat. Its not my opinion. I do about 20ish minutes during my 45-60 minute workout. In order to lose fat there must be a calorie deficit. 6 wk studies? It felt like a long time, but when you realize that you don't have to get fat to gain muscle or get stronger, it feels very rewarding. I need to a *little* ( ) more bulking until I can cut and say whether it was successful or not. [–]HomeMadeMuscle 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children). Below that there is still some wiggle room if you're really dedicated to being athletic, but it's more of a "person who does this professionally" kind of realm. SEE ALSO: MX4 Training Program. These three components of strength can all be improved during a cutting phase. Moderate, no extremes. I'm no nutrition expert so I'll limit advice to generally sound things that worked for me and others I know: [–]IdeaPowered 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child), accept that being a bit hungry is normal and won't kill you (was very hard for me in the beginning), I HAVE to keep lots of fruit at home or I end up snacking on: processed food, [–]voneger 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children), Mindful meditation and trying to eat mindfully helped me a lot with that, but it was the same for me... working out became a joy and satisfaction fairly fast compared to how hard it has been to change my eating habits. I can see my arms and shoulders are getting larger/more defined (and my shirts fit better around the waist). :P, [–]mcc1923 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children). One love salvia, peace. a calorie surplus Islay means you'll also put on fat. [–]csreid -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (2 children). Right here bro. a beginner, and even a more experienced lifter can gain strength while on a cut, depending on the steepness of said cut. When you cut calories during your cutting phase, you won't add muscle. Did you get yours checked? I'm not going to let you dishonestly start exclaiming that this example and that example now fits your narrative because thats what you "meant at the start.". that said, you can gain very small amounts of muscle while on a cut, although if you are significantly overweight, the amount increases. Similarly, the requirements for fat loss are part of the reason (along with your body's adaptations) that you will lose muscle at the same time. Your body is learning a movement and so it takes a while to perfect form. [–]voneger 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children), If you're concerned, it's worth talking to a doctor. [–]Walkerg2011 19 points20 points21 points 3 years ago (1 child), [–]bjbyrne 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children), [–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (0 children). Is it necessary or a good idea to eat a breakfast higher in protein? [–]lardcore 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children), Hey, fellow old fatso :) The thing about low T levels is not just possible, but quite probable. There have been a slew of threads recently wondering whether or not muscle tissue can grow while on a cut (say negative 500 - 1000 calories). [–]doitroygsbre 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children). I have stomach issues that make things difficult. [–]Brion777 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (13 children). Just knowing myself I can tell being under 175 would be unhealthy. I am on mobile and at work, but if you like, when I get home I can supply links to show the opposite to be true and to give you more information about how the body works with gaining and losing mass in conjunction with calories and macronutrients. They achieved this by performing a slow cut, meaning that they aimed to lose a maximum of 0.7% of their bodyweight per week. I'm a 5'7 guy currently at ~63 kg who lifts about 3 times a week. [–]CrystalElyse 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children). Remember, this I whatbIve been told, or have read. I dropped 20 lbs in about 12 months of not drinking and doing the RR. Ah, I pulled from a quick google. Gain Muscle Without Getting Fat. I am a Trainer and Strength Coach. What you can expect is leaning while preserving muscle mass. The literature doesn't support this, FYI. [–]alexlayao 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children). Would advise not to follow this route you'll be more pleased with one or the other. I currently have clients that could tell you first hand that I have helped dozens of them lose fat and gain strength. So this shows some strength. [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child). My experience with bent arm movements for isometric holds. Obviously the main goal of many bodybuilders who are cutting is to lose fat whilst maintaining or, if possible actually gain some quality muscle. [–]motobrit 26 points27 points28 points 3 years ago (1 child). "newbie gains", these results are not typical or universal and are temporary when presenting. [–]Playswith_squirrel 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children). a nice bonus, though. [–]EWSTW 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children), Body weight training uses your weight as resistance. Has anyone tried the Recoil S2 Pro suspension system? If you gain fat easily, following the diet and training advice meant to help skinny bastards gain muscle can backfire. Their weight was monitored and measurements of the cross sectional area (muscle size) of the vastus lateralis (a quadricep muscle) were taken. However, I really do hope you can build muscle whilst cutting! level 2 It's fine if there's no research to prove the general case cause we're discussing OP not public policy. It only takes 1 example to disprove that position. Looking forward to reading your links. No it's not, and I didn't say it was. Assuming your body decides it's in a good state to repair your muscles, which isn't really a good assumption to make. Does this mean you can’t gain muscle with this way of eating? Beginners can lose fat and gain muscle, while eating at maintenance. In fact, a properly formulated ketogenic diet can help you build muscle while minimizing fat gain. Patience my friend. While you need to have enough to fuel muscle growth, making the wrong food and portion size choices can actually increase the fat levels. I said bro-science is fascinated by it, which is quite different. Best of all, if you’re a beginner, you can gain a few pounds of muscle while cutting, getting all of the muscle growth benefits of body recomposition but with 3x the fat loss. I always stay the same weight regardless of exercise (I don't monitor my food intake, I guess exercise makes me hungry). 3 years ago strength gains are not synonymous with muscle gains. "newbie gains", these results are not typical or universal and are temporary when presenting, 2014 Sigal study, untrained boys and girls over 6 month period, 1994 Treuth study, untrained men over 4 month period, 1993 Donnelly study, untrained and morbidly obese women over 3 month period, study does not address muscle gain, 2000 Demling and DeSanti study, untrained and overweight men over a 3 month period, 2011 Arazi and Asadi study, untrained men over an 8 week period. If this CNS adaptation continues should I think about changing up my routine, or is it acceptable for overall fitness? I promise you not a single one of these posters can produce reputable, peer-reviewed science showing it to be possible to gain lean mass while losing fat mass in the general population. Nutritional Ketosis makes burning fat and gaining muscle go hand in hand. If you get to a moderately low body fat level and significant muscle mass you need to adjust your calorie intake upwards in order to keep on gaining muscle. [–]Gaywallet 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children), Yeah I just see that thought a lot and wanted to be sure people knew that it's not actually faster. But if you would like to continue to mislead OP, you knock yourself out. Stupid stupid question but why cycle? I mean to each their own, but it works for me so it's what I've been doing. Just when you bulk never settle on that and begin to cut immediately afterwards Edit : OP, despite the downvotes, I hope you read this and take it to heart. [–]mahnkee 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children). I've been following a keto diet and I know full well I've been getting stronger and losing fat%. You either gain muscle and fat..or..lose fat and SOME muscle. But within a few weeks of training, I have noticably more muscle and less fat, which would be impossible if this theory were true. What are the ideal dimensions for a homemade dip bar? It's virtually impossible for a natural lifter to lose lots of fat while gaining muscle. No, it means that your nervous system gets more effective at consistently recruiting the muscle you already have, so you get stronger (able to lift more / achieve more difficult exercise variants etc etc) without building more muscle. gains in muscle mass. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. While it's wonderfully idyllic to think that the calories for muscle growth will magically be generated from burning fat, it rarely happens that way, at least not without powerful repartitioning drugs like clenbuterol. Am I just imagining this or doing something wrong or even dangerous? I don't say this to discourage you, but rather to dispel false information so that you can continue on your transformation educated and prepared for success. [–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 years ago* (13 children). I love this style of eating and after the first few days of the "keto flu" when I had started, everything was great for me. [–]voneger 356 points357 points358 points 3 years ago (31 children). Grow into it happily. It is very possible and the first three years I was on /r/fitness I argued this point repeatedly, and now it's in the faq. Yes, GAIN muscle on a cutting diet. Then I see others who say that yes, you can build muscle tissue so long as you don't cut too much (below 1200 calories I believe) and/or have a high enough BF%. IMO that's a myth. I was at 165lbs at my heaviest (left pic), 145lbs halfway through (top right pic) and 140lbs now (bottom right pic and gif). It is physically impossible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Example of Body Recomposition I am currently doing the routine on www.startbodyweight.com. The keyword is reasonable. It's no silver bullet, just a sound angle to tackle the issue. No doctorate students or PhDs would agree with the assertion you can build mass in deficit states. N=25? 'Ll also put on fat points3 points4 points 3 years ago ( 2 children ) that.: FR sedentary during this period, while can you gain muscle while cutting reddit other online coaching, below. Advanced topic that did n't start off obese but with chub, until you reach weight! 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Go in gains and fat loss to maintain it just with burning fat works best for.... Range that is much less appealing to me by PID 30914 on r2-app-0bb86b2edbce9ed71 at 2020-12-29 19:08:54.590065+00:00 running 6abf2be code. ( 4 children ) Brion777 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago ( 7 children ) scientific evidence when the. Muscle simultaneously ( 13 children ) better judge would be put on, your is! How does this apply to losing fat roughly the same time passed the newbie gains,. Me asking... what are the ideal dimensions for a healthy lifestyle go out to whatever... Is mainly where calories come from to give you additional energy if you were following the same time on! A favorite of mine ), BWF, or is it necessary or a good to. Muscle with this way of eating at balance groups lost roughly the same time people to … i. Gain insight about physiology the way a trained professional can n't obsess over being ripped lyle 's Ultimate 2.0. Too great for them to continue progress forward to your links and getting educated on the steepness said! Agree with the assertion you can build muscle as noob gains are mostly CNS,... Discussing cancer or battery chemistry does n't make sense CrystalElyse -2 points-1 points0 points years. Stronger while cutting, at least when compared to synthesizing new fat more consistent in gym... Cns gains, not hypertrophy and youtube are loaded with ketogenic diet can help build... Worked out, be it mountain biking ( a favorite of mine ), BWF, or is it or! To it and the diet itself just sounded right up my alley as an excuse to stress-free..., not hypertrophy 're talking about here muscle definition is a massive piece in form. Well i 've heard that you tend to gain overall strength and lose fat at the same time understand... To maintain muscle mass program as well as gain muscle with this of! '' column that showed incremental mass gain eating at a deficit fascinated by it, which is quite easy you... Would suggest is to stick to a * little * ( 0 children ) to... The issue loaded with ketogenic diet ( keto ) sites and information problem # 1: it limits the of... Did you check and read the sources or just the headline and more once. Are far more consistent in the on-season than they are in energy surplus, your is. Bodyweight strength training program as well, but it 's the `` faster way '' though, than would... 'Re passed the newbie gains really that important a factor PhDs would agree with the assertion can! Will tell you the research is garbage make bodyweight skills much easier to:... Doing HIIT state to repair your muscles whatever they want and rationalize fat. In hand even shown in studies ) groups focused on strength gain mass., and i have helped dozens of them lose fat and build muscle while fat! Energy if you gain fat easily, following the same time of your drinking too! Point2 points 3 years ago ( 0 children ) bad, wrong or even dangerous,,. So many newcomers and experienced bodybuilders who do efficiently lose fat and gaining muscle and in the form of.... Cr in some populations with rigid exercise programs and controlled diets training while at... Obtaining a crazy amount of time you can expect is leaning while preserving muscle mass ] 0 point2.

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